How does re-indexing affect the singers list?

[JoeNobody]

Incredible. This is going to be fun. He's going to push back real hard when I tell him he's using an input device to output.

Could this be causing the latency problem?

I'm just confused at why he'd make a mistake like this. I mean, the guy has been in numerous bands over the years, been DJ'ing for 13 years. And, has been using a laptop for Dj'ing for 3 years.

[Justin]

I think everybody is getting ahead of themselves here... let me try to clear up a couple of things:

- The USB device your dad is using is, in fact, an external audio device, also known as a "USB Sound Card". Even if it were designed for recording as its primary function, if it can output audio, it *should* be just fine for this. As long as the drivers are up to date and Behringer still supports the device... which can be a very big "if"...

- Most (damned near all) mixer boards don't have a direct digital interface. I actually do have one, but it's a Fostex Hard Disk recorder that happens to have an SP/DIF optical input. For the most part, you'll be using an analog 1/4", XLR, or RCA input from your computer. I know they also do make mixer boards with direct USB interfaces, so it acts as a sound card, but they are quite expensive, not well supported, and in my opinion unnecessary... plus they usually have "scratch tables" which is an entirely different DJ style than what I support...

Bottom line is this: I personally use a Sound Blaster USB MP3+ device. It does have optical, but it also has RCA jacks (2-in, 2-out) and even though I bought this thing in 2002, it works great.

When I look at sound cards or external audio devices, I look at a few things. For one, you definitely want RCA or (better yet) 1/4" jacks. You want gold plating - it really does make a difference. And you want a device that is *supported* by the company that put it out. Any company that says "well we made that 10 years ago, so go buy a newer one" is not the kind of company I would do business with. They should stand behind their older "legacy" products, and make sure they will still work in the next version of Windows, on the newer PC platforms, etc. Otherwise you're just wasting your money...

I don't know much about Behrigner's USB audio devices (though I do have an 8 channel mixer and a couple of compressor/limiters from them), so I can't comment on the quality of their drivers. Just know that if they don't provide support for older products, they will most likely phaze out any new products you buy from them (this goes for any company). Just something to think about.

[Fabio]

Could this be causing the latency problem?

Yup, this could be causing it.  Frankly I don't know how he's able to connect the RCA to the mixer and still have sound coming OUT.  It's been a long time since I got this device and played with it but the RCA is supposed to be an INPUT not an OUTPUT....but I'm not 100% sure as it could be a way to monitor the sound.  I'm take a look when I get home tonight...I believe my son still has it.

-Fabio

[Fabio]

There you go, so it does have some playback functionality...I guess I never played with it long enough.

-Fabio

[Justin]

Fabio: one thing I have found, that is a trend these days, is that a device that is primarily designed for output can often be used bi-directionally. I think that's a word...

Even your built-in laptop audio can often be used in three different ways:

- Headphone jack (where the output actually drives your headphones)
- Line-out (like the above but with higher impedance)
- Line Input

That last one is interesting, and not all laptops do this, but essentially the chip can sense what kind of thing you just connected to the computer, and adjust the levels and even the *direction* accordingly. I've done this on my HP, using what looks like a headphone jack as a line-in... you might have to set it up in Windows, or in the driver's settings, but yes, what appears to be an output can (in theory) be used as an input instead, and vice-versa.

I'm not familiar with the device you guys are talking about, but my guess is that it can be configured in either direction, probably to save space by adding additional jacks...

[JoeNobody]

The Behringer device he's using for the Karaoke laptop (the one I listed) is new. He bought it a few weeks ago, and all the drivers are up to date.

So, what's the verdict on it. Should he ditch it, or is it OK?

[Fabio]

Well..I still think it was mostly made for INPUT rather than output...personally I'd rather use something that is made for a specific task rather than trying to force it to do another.I ditched it for a simpler solution which the Sound Blaster (SB1095) is...aside from the driver issues I recently had I'd still prefer it.  In fact, just for convenience sake since I had the issue this past week.  I actually purchased an identical SB1095 for the second laptop (will probably arrive tomorrow or Monday) even though I could have used the SB1090 and just change the driver. I don't want to get to a gig just to find out I brought the wrong device  for the driver installed on my current system (specially since the look exactly the same). Unfortunately the SB1090 is already spoken for by a friend of mine otherwise I'd send it to you just because I don't want to have it around and somehow mix it up with my other two.

[JoeNobody]

Fabio: I'm with you. If I ever set up to do this stuff, I'll make better choices than my dad has. Turns out, he got the suggestion to use this device from another DJ friend of his. He told me "every DJ I know uses this device". I challenged him to that, so he called one of his friends, and sure enough, they use an actual external sound card. Some $299 thing. I forget what the guy said it was. And, he uses Mac, so his opinion doesn't count anyway. Hahaha...

[Fabio]

yeah, this SB1095 is really good...and also the SB1090...I just don't want both due to the driver issue. I have been complemented on my sound and I know I owe it both to VDJ (due to the AGC settings) and this SB card...and you can find it for less $60.

And, he uses Mac, so his opinion doesn't count anyway. Hahaha...

Lol, for whatever is worth, Macs in fact have superior sound and mostly you don't need an an external sound card.  I'm a PC guy myself even though I own an iMac as well...I still enjoy the "open wilderness" that a PC gives you to the "enclosed garden"  that Apple gives you.  Same is true between Android and iPhones. 


-Fabio

[Justin]

Lol, for whatever is worth, Macs in fact have superior sound and mostly you don't need an an external sound card.

I bought a MacBook Pro back in 2009, and I absolutely loved it. But for the price, I would still lean toward the PC market. After the $2500 MacBook crapped out on me, I picked up this HP I'm typing on right now for $200 on eBay... much faster, more RAM, and honestly it's just easier to get things done.

Don't get me wrong, I do still miss that Mac for things like web development, graphics, or video editing - but I really do get a lot more done (including running my business) on the PC. And you really can't go wrong with an HP business model...

As for sound cards - any decent external audio card should give you pretty decent sound. When you want to ensure it is going to sound professional, I would look for gold-plated connections, and avoid just using a 1/8" "Y" adapter, preferring RCA or 1/4" jacks. But again I cannot stress enough how important it is to have updated drivers, and that the manufacturer still actually supports the device...

Back to the Mac thing - it really is a different world, with the "enclosed garden" Fabio described. But they also provide the development tools and a lot of other things you don't get on the PC. And their internal audio is pretty good (as is their video, if you buy the proprietary "DisplayPort" adapter for your particular situation). The selection of available software however isn't that great. As a developer myself, I know that the main reason - even though their hardware is probably better - is that there is a much greater market on the PC/Windows platform... so if you want to make money selling software, you probably aren't going to target the Mac...

[Fabio]

Joe:

I've attached pictures of my device including pages from the manual...it should be self explanatory after you see the pics.

By the way, at the time I discovered it could be used to record out of the mixer I thought about using to record mp3s I could sell to singers who wanted a copy of their rendition...but then quickly thought I'd probably get sued by either the karaoke company or the recording industry for the music and quickly gave up on it and knowing what I know now about lawsuits going on in the karaoke industry I think i was right in NOT doing it.


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[JoeNobody]

*sigh* This is what dad is now insisting he needs. I'm pretty sure, after reading the description, that it's basically the same thing he already has, and NOT an external sound card.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/American-Audio-Audio-Genie-II-USB-Phono-Interface-500861-i1427371.gc?source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CNb5z4z62bkCFcJj7AodBhUAFw&kwid=productads-plaid^32411604641-sku^500861@ADL4GC-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^13625729441

[vcationguy]

I just use this and run it through a mixer then to a Bose L1 compact.  It's easy and does a nice job.  Less than $25 at Walmart.

http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/sound-cards-accessories/amigo-ii/32

Ron

[Fabio]

Joe:

It makes it easy to record audio from your CD player, mixer, effect player, cassette deck, radio, or record player with your computer's built-in audio recorder or your favorite audio-production software.

Reading the above from the description, sadly, I think you're right. Point him towards the SB1090 or the SB1095 or Ron's Turtlebeach device.

-Fabio

[Justin]

By the way, at the time I discovered it could be used to record out of the mixer I thought about using to record mp3s I could sell to singers who wanted a copy of their rendition...

I had the exact same idea, and even considered offering a feature in VDJ to handle that - and then I thought about how litigation-happy those companies are and shelved the idea. I thought it would be neat to sell a CD or mp3 download to the customer...

Another reason it's not the best idea - would you want to hear what you sounded like the next day, after a night of drinking and "performing"? I don't know about you, but I know that most of my customers are embarrassed when somebody uploads a video to Youtube and they see it the next day... it might even discourage people from singing once they know it's being recorded..,.